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| − | Hello,
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| − | I am trying to create a new page on this site, however I am having trouble. This page will focus on Christianity , so far I have two yahoo groups that need to expand. I hope that you can assist me to get the word out. I really enjoy the Korean culture and I look forward to teaching English and learning more Korean. Also to spread the word for those that are seeking spiritual guidance. I hope to hear from you soon and get this page up as soon as possible. Thank you!
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| − | - Mark
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| − | == guys, ==
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| − | I really believe this site is an oxymoron. A community-based wiki project called koreanwikiproject.com. If you're not inventing the wheel what else can you call rewriting a page about ㄹ irregular verbs? Mine is CC license and if there isn't one on wikipedia.org then I'd be very shocked. And if community ideology is so strong, what is wrong with wikipedia.org ? What this site is is 3 people spending lots of time creating duplicate information, as far as the larger community is concerned. I know it helps your korean study, because I learned by making my site as well. But, I am thinking wider about the benefit to the larger netizens, not just a community called koreanwikiproject.com. And the verb endings, besides that I already have 500 of them and there's a university site out there with a thousand of them (again, with examples from books). It just doesn't seem right for you to have to take your precious time to do this work all over again. Moreover, I understand the webhosting, administration, and content responsibilities become a part-time job. Finally, I am a professional proofreader and translator and I can tell you that it takes a lot less energy to proofread than it does to translate. So, it just really makes me angry to see your talent and hard work and passion being mis-used in this way. I can only wonder what is so great about this site that's different from wikipedia.org, for example, or my site .... I just disagree, I guess.
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| − | I have the irregular verb entries done, just take them from my site.
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| − | Take my verb entries and mint's example postings and add them here.
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| − | You can create a mirror of the entire grammar section .
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| − | proverbs, I have a ton of them, but i got them off another site which I linked to but have no idea what the license is (yet).
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| − | I also have survival korean, which is missing from your site at this point.
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| − | I wouldn't worry about the format differences, db conversions, etc. -- I can shave the skin off an apple with my excellent php and SQL skillsets. No doubt, it would be a lot of grunt work.
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| − | the word list examples can be created by a php script which would accept the English words and create html output with the Korean words as part of them, to save much time typing.
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| − | Sincerely,
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| − | Joseph
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| − | ----
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| − | I guess we just have to agree to disagree. We like having our own wiki because we can control and change it unlike Wikipedia.org. You can find many examples of other people who have created wikis separate from Wikipedia and have successfully created communities around it. Is it duplicate information? Yeah, a lot is, but not all content is created equal. Websites can have the same information, but one might be more useful if it's presented and organized in a different way. We are creating unique resources, like the most recent linking of Chinese Roots to pages so that you can learn the roots and more vocabulary. What other site does that? The [[Hangeul Assistant]] is another great example of a very unique resource that isn't present anywhere else. These are all things that have been very easy to make thanks to not having to worry about creating or heavily modifying the underlying platform. If we had to create a website from scratch and do a lot of coding, that would have been a waste of my time.
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| − | Yeah, I totally understand about learning through setting up this kind of website. One of the biggest reasons for me working so hard on this wiki is that I believe teaching is the best way to learn. Is it a waste? Even if no one else used the site or if the site totally crashed and we lost everything, I've personally gained a lot from the experience and would not consider the time I've taken on it as a waste. I looked at all the Korean language websites out there and felt that contributing to them would have been a waste of my time since I didn't really like how they were set up. Chris was like that and I'm sure many others are also. People have different preferences, so we are just giving them an alternative. I don't see anything wasteful or wrong with that. Anyways, good luck with everything,
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| − | --[[User:Mstrum|Mstrum]] 07:25, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
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| − | ----
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| − | ::The creation with this project is due to the dissatisfaction with other sources of material for the Korean language, we can't go change other people's websites or go fix their explanations, provide more examples, provide clearer examples, or provide more natural examples. Since we can't do that, we took it into our own hands and want to provide the better content people need, provide natural examples, clear up misconceptions that aren't explained in books. It's like why are there so many car companies or restaurant chains out there? Because the creators thought they could offer something better than what was already out there. Same with this website.<br>
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| − | ::I think asking what is wrong with wikipedia is a silly question (no offense). Wikipedia has their own agendas, their own rules, their own ideology. A lot of the stuff we want to do there won't be permitted or doesn't fit their project, if I make a Korean vocabulary page for military vocabulary words do you honestly think it would fit on wikipedia? If I put individual Korean grammar patterns on wikipedia do you think those are the type of articles they want?
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| − | ::While it's mostly three of us contributing at the moment, we have to lay the backbone and foundation of this site so others will take the project seriously and join. Do you think wikipedia started out with 1,000+ users from the start? People had to know it was a legit project and that they weren't wasting their time contributing. The site's been up only since February and I think we've done a lot and already surpassed many other sites and we already have unique content you can't find on other sites. As I mentioned before, we haven't even formally advertised our website nor have we worked on it full time.<br>
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| − | ::Matt and I have a vision for what this site will become, and we want to see it grow into that. Other websites are providing the same basic information from textbook sources and Korean no one really uses. For example other websites and books teach the pattern V + 는군요 as an exclamation ending, when in fact no one really uses it like that these days except in specific situations. That's the exact type of thing we want to avoid, teaching useless Korean. Another example is V + 거든요 is always simply explained as "because" when its much more than that. How many websites go indepth with their explanations? Harldy any, they just provide the basic information and leave it up to the reader to figure out the rest. I used to read bad explanations and wish I could correct it, but now since there is a wiki system, people can actually fix the content just as our Korean member Jayshin has already been doing. When we feel we are ready to launch our site we will have many Koreans fixing up the site, correcting details and adding more indepth information. It will take many users and many corrections in the end to get an article nearly perfect, but at least we have that option unlike other Korean language websites out there.--[[User:Bluesoju|Bluesoju]] 07:33, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
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| − | this is a very passionate discussion. IT's nice to see so much passion. Some points are simply wrong.
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| − | >>> We are creating unique resources, like the most recent linking of Chinese Roots to pages so that you can learn the roots and more vocabulary. What other site does that?
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| − | My entire open source korean-english dictionary has hanja for every word cross-linked to hanja pages. Have you seen a page like :
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| − | http://ezcorean.com/index.php?browse_word=1&cs=ksc&search_encoded=%25ED%2595%259C%25EC%259E%2590&search=%ED%95%9C%EC%9E%90&dpjs=0&from_to=korean-english&cfile=mod_pager&this_page=yes
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| − | click the hanja and you go to this page:
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| − | http://ezcorean.com/bb_index.php?subaction=vthread&topic=90093&forum=17&switch=h&level=7
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| − | the reason you can't edit the grammar entries on my site is BECAUSE YOU NEVER ASKED. The only difference I can see between a wiki and a forum-based grammar site like mine is that the wiki can track changes and stores previously edited versions so they can be reviewed. If I told my software, say, MStrum and Bluesoju were moderators, the thing would be the same as a wiki, only if you messed something up, I'd have to restore from the previous week's backup.
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| − | >>>if I make a Korean vocabulary page for military vocabulary words do you honestly think it would fit on wikipedia? If I put individual Korean grammar patterns on wikipedia do you think those are the type of articles they want?
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| − | I really can't answer that question. I honestly don't know about wikipedia.org.
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| − | >>> problems with V + 는군요 and V + 거든요 (because).
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| − | yes, 거든요 is because as a result of an allegation.
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| − | :거든요 doesn't require an allegation. No allegation below:
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| − | ::A:"어제 왜 안 왔어?" <br>
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| − | ::B:"바빴거든요"<br> (because meaning)
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| − | :Some counter examples where it doesn't mean "because" (typed by a native Korean speaker):
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| − | ::"버스에서 핸드폰 잃어버렸거든요." ... (Giving introductory information on his situation, then another follow up sentence to explain why he's bringing up that information)
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| − | ::"제가 시험에서 1등 했거든요." ... (Giving information, then follow up information about it)
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| − | ::"제가 어제 많이 취했거든요. 그래서 머리를 다쳤어요" (Again giving information)
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| − | ::A:"너 변태지?"
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| − | ::B:"전 그런 사람 아니거든요." (Because doesn't make sense in this situation)
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| − | ::A:"신발 벗어야 되나요?
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| − | ::B:"네. 신발 벗고 들어오셔야 되거든요." (Ironically my friend just said this to someone as they were walking in)<br>
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| − | ::If you watch Korean tv or Korean dramas, you will see 거든(요) is used a lot, and in a lot of cases the "because" translation does no work, yet it's the only definition other websites and textbooks say. It's often used to get people to understand something or trying to get them to understand your situation --[[User:Bluesoju|Bluesoju]] 09:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
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| − | [[User:Joesp|Joesp]] 13:10, 9 July 2009 (UTC) ::
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| − | good job. Very nice explanation. You managed to flush out the meaning very well. Sorry we didn't have this conversation on the page for the topic.
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| − | we haven't established any basis for collaboration, so I assume if I change my site into a wiki, that will be the first step in working together. I sincerely believe that despite our differences of opinion, that we should bring our sites to the stage where they are mirrors of the same, then we can simply use two domain names. Everything great is accomplished by people working in groups [[User:Joesp|Joesp]] The best thing I can contribute to your project is the fruits of my individual work, and then in combination, we will become stronger, like Mickey mouse (or is that the 3 musketeers).
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| − | So, as a result of this conversation, I can see where my site has been subject to misinterpretation and I will try to fix that in the upcoming weeks. After that, I will revisit your site and talk to you again.
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| − | 이제 왭사이트 관리에 시간을 투자하는 것보다 9월에 나오는 한국어능력시험에 점수를 잘 나오도록 그 공부에 집중하고 있습니다. 그러니 ... 잘 살고 시간을 잘 활용하면서 사이트를 만들었으면 좋겠습니다.
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| − | :I'm not sure what changing your site into a wiki and mirroring the sites would accomplish. If we mirror our sites than it's energy wasted keeping two sites the same rather than adding new and unique content, which goes against your wasting valuable time and reinventing the wheel comments before. It would also be a hassle keeping track of the changes between the two and it would take you a lot of time converting the content you already have to make it into wiki format. While collaborating would be great, I don't think this would be an effective way to do so. --[[User:Bluesoju|Bluesoju]] 00:01, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
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| − | I have seen those Hanja pages before. To be fair, the implementation is totally different. That being said, I probably shouldn't have said it can't be found anywhere else.
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| − | Also, I have known that people can edit the pages. I just personally didn't want to work in that environment. It's nothing personal or anything, I was just looking for something more wiki-like. One example of a reason wikis are nice? I can easily link to something like [[계]] without needing to look up how to link to that. Or I could link to [[computers]] as another example. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but anything other than a wiki pretty much requires you to look things up to link to them if it's non-trivial.
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| − | I know where you're coming from, many of the functionality is technically there. Maybe it's just that we both misunderstand each other's websites. I do believe that our sites offer very different ways to edit and organize things. There isn't really a right or wrong way, it's all just personal preference.
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| − | --[[User:Mstrum|Mstrum]] 14:10, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
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| − | [[User:Joesp|Joesp]] 01:51, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
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| − | I have no doubt wasted too much time programming functionality into my site.
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| − | I'm so tired of it, I'd rather study Korean than do that ever again. I just want to get that whole thing off my shoulders.
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| − | Do you have a way to do bulk uploads without using an HTML interface?
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| − | Just curious, in case someday I should have the inclination and the time, but not these days
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| − | [[User:Joesp|Joesp]] 01:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
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| − | Matt, do you know if the bot that leaves messages on new user's pages can also leave messages on other pages? Also should we categorize them in the bots user group? --[[User:Bluesoju|Bluesoju]] 06:41, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
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| − | Maybe, I'm not really too sure. Sorry, there was a death in the family so I'm pretty busy doing things for that so I may not be able to do very much until next week. --[[User:Mstrum|Mstrum]] 13:28, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
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| − | ==Video for editing==
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| − | Need some suggestions on what to put in a tutorial video for editing, here is what I got so far:
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| − | ===Videos===
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| − | *I now have software where I can show users how to use this wiki as well as other things like how to install Korean. Any ideas of what videos to make Matt and Jay? Some ideas:
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| − | **Videos on how to use and edit this wiki (English version)
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| − | ***First register
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| − | ***Talking about recent changes
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| − | ***Finding current articles via categories
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| − | ***Editing articles
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| − | ***Creating articles
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| − | ***Read the guidelines before editing
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| − | ***Using the toolbar
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| − | ***Basic wiki code
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| − | **Videos on how to use and edit this wiki. Korean version:
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| − | ***First register
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| − | ***How to change the language to Korean
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| − | ***Things native speakers can do
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| − | ***Talking about recent changes
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| − | ***Finding current articles via categories
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| − | ***Editing articles
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| − | ***Creating articles
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| − | ***Read the guidelines before editing
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| − | ***Using the toolbar
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| − | ***Basic wiki code
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